I have actually come to grips with the syntax now and I love the way you type the syntax :).

+==========+

Regards,
Tristan B. Kildaire (Deavmi)

Email: deavmi@ewbbs.synchro.net; deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net

+==========+

---
■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365

I will also be sticking with Pascal as I like it a lot and FPC exists.

+==========+

Regards,
Tristan B. Kildaire (Deavmi)

Email: deavmi@ewbbs.synchro.net; deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net

+==========+

---
■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365

Deavmi wrote to Darkages <=-

I have actually come to grips with the syntax now and I love the way
you type the syntax :).

I've always like Pascal syntax. Pascal is the language I've done the most with, so I do have a soft spot for it.


... Borg Burgers: We do it our way; your way is irrelevant.
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.

Deavmi wrote to Darkages <=-

I will also be sticking with Pascal as I like it a lot and FPC exists.

I'm also looking at relearning Pascal. Even looking at code snippets is bringing back memories, so it will be a lot less of a (re) learning curve than learning C or another language from near scratch.


... Why get even, when you can get odd?
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I'm also looking at relearning Pascal. Even looking at code snippets is bringing back memories, so it will be a lot less of a (re) learning curve than learning C or another language from near scratch.

... Why get even, when you can get odd?
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
Γûá Synchronet Γûá Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.

I was busy reading the documentation on Free Pascal's Pascal and I shall return to it shortly.

+==========+

Regards,
Tristan B. Kildaire (Deavmi)

Email: deavmi@ewbbs.synchro.net; deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net

+==========+

---
■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365

I'm also looking at relearning Pascal. Even looking at code snippets is bringing back memories, so it will be a lot less of a (re) learning curve than learning C or another language from near scratch.

... Why get even, when you can get odd?
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
Γûá Synchronet Γûá Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.

If I have any questions I will come to you :).

+==========+

Regards,
Tristan B. Kildaire (Deavmi)

Email: deavmi@ewbbs.synchro.net; deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net

+==========+

---
■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365

On 2017-03-27 12:21 AM, Vk3jed wrote:

Deavmi wrote to Darkages <=-

I have actually come to grips with the syntax now and I love the way
you type the syntax :).

I've always like Pascal syntax. Pascal is the language I've done the most with, so I do have a soft spot for it.

... Borg Burgers: We do it our way; your way is irrelevant.
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
� Synchronet � Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.

I have a soft spot for it even though I never did it back in the day (lol).

---
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Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
By: Deavmi to Vk3jed on Mon Mar 27 2017 02:04 pm

I've always like Pascal syntax. Pascal is the language I've done the
most with, so I do have a soft spot for it.

I have a soft spot for it even though I never did it back in the day (lol).

Anyone for FORTRAN? :)

---
■ Synchronet ■ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org

Anyone for FORTRAN? :)

Considered it in the early 80's then I saw Pascal.

---
■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -

Deavmi wrote to Vk3jed <=-

I was busy reading the documentation on Free Pascal's Pascal and I
shall return to it shortly.

Yeah, that's on my winter to do list, which is getting closer, with the last week of the summer track season upon me. :)


... We print the news WE think you need to be told.
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Deavmi wrote to Vk3jed <=-

If I have any questions I will come to you :).

Well, it's going to take a little while to get off the ground, though I did get "Hello World" working. LOL


... Catlapse: The cat's time between removal from a lap and awakening
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Deavmi wrote to Vk3jed <=-

I have a soft spot for it even though I never did it back in the day (lol).

Haha OK, cool. Yeah, I actually did do quite a lot of Pascal back in the day. :)


... My brain has never had a firm grip on where my feet are.
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Poindexter Fortran wrote to Deavmi <=-

I have a soft spot for it even though I never did it back in the day

lol).

Anyone for FORTRAN? :)

I did a little FORTRAN at university. Took a bit of getting used to, but was an excellent language for mathematical work. Even had a native type for complex numbers (very handy for electronic engineering).


... I'm not nearly as think as you confused I am.
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On 2017-03-28 12:39 AM, Vk3jed wrote:

Deavmi wrote to Vk3jed <=-

I was busy reading the documentation on Free Pascal's Pascal and I
shall return to it shortly.

Yeah, that's on my winter to do list, which is getting closer, with the last week of the summer track season upon me. :)

... We print the news WE think you need to be told.
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
� Synchronet � Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.

Awesome to hear.

---
■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365

On 2017-03-28 12:40 AM, Vk3jed wrote:

Deavmi wrote to Vk3jed <=-

If I have any questions I will come to you :).

Well, it's going to take a little while to get off the ground, though I did get
"Hello World" working. LOL

... Catlapse: The cat's time between removal from a lap and awakening
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
� Synchronet � Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.

program hello;

begin
writeln('Hello world');
end.

---
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On 2017-03-28 12:40 AM, Vk3jed wrote:

Deavmi wrote to Vk3jed <=-

If I have any questions I will come to you :).

Well, it's going to take a little while to get off the ground, though I did get
"Hello World" working. LOL

... Catlapse: The cat's time between removal from a lap and awakening
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
� Synchronet � Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.

I just love Pascal's syntax. So frikken sexy.

---
■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365

On 2017-03-27 06:14 PM, Poindexter Fortran wrote:

Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
By: Deavmi to Vk3jed on Mon Mar 27 2017 02:04 pm

I've always like Pascal syntax. Pascal is the language I've done the
most with, so I do have a soft spot for it.

I have a soft spot for it even though I never did it back in the day (lol).

Anyone for FORTRAN? :)

---
� Synchronet � realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org

My grandmother did Fortran, COBOLand Pascal to name a few.

---
■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365

Deavmi wrote to Vk3jed <=-

Yeah, that's on my winter to do list, which is getting closer, with the last week of the summer track season upon me. :)

Awesome to hear.

Yeah, should be fun. :)


... Transporter room, beam that Tagline up immediately!
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Deavmi wrote to Vk3jed <=-

program hello;

begin
writeln('Hello world');
end.

I had to add

Uses Crt;

at the top, it needs the CRT unit to be able to write to the console screen..
D


... The one question you've always wanted clarified. What did she say?
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Deavmi wrote to Vk3jed <=-

I just love Pascal's syntax. So frikken sexy.

I find it quite neat, for the most part.


... A BAND AID?!?! I'm a doctor not a... Oh yeah...
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On 2017-03-30 11:37 AM, Vk3jed wrote:

Deavmi wrote to Vk3jed <=-

program hello;

begin
writeln('Hello world');
end.

I had to add

Uses Crt;

at the top, it needs the CRT unit to be able to write to the console screen.. D

... The one question you've always wanted clarified. What did she say?
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
� Synchronet � Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.

FPC includes that module by default.

---
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On 2017-03-30 11:38 AM, Vk3jed wrote:

Deavmi wrote to Vk3jed <=-

I just love Pascal's syntax. So frikken sexy.

I find it quite neat, for the most part.

... A BAND AID?!?! I'm a doctor not a... Oh yeah...
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Yeah, it is.

---
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I find it quite neat, for the most part.

Cleaner to read than a bunch of {} %#%$ () () ;

Maybe it look less compact, but a code is brisk and small no because you typed it compactly.

Remember demonstrating that years ago at a job writing the same piece of code in Turbo Pascal and in Microsoft C.

We had a decompiler so we could see what both code looked like and at that level it was practically indistinguishable.

And when you use Delphi the difference in the size of a .exe was dramatic.

Opening a windows with "hello world" with a button to close was like 15kb. where the same in c# was like 250kb because of all the stuff it was
bundling in it and that with turning the debug mode at off in both cases.

So at the end of the day, it's funnier to support code in Pascal than C or Java. You can of course type less compact source code in c or java but it's up to the developer, when pascal forces you.

while (number > 0)
{
factorial *= number;
--number;
}

or

while (nu > 0) {fa *= nu;--nu;}

it will both do the same thing, but one is so much nicer to read that the other.

and once compiled that will end up being the same code executing in the
same amount of time.

---
■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -

I like C's syntax. It's good and easier to type (physically with a keyboard - not talking about the type system).

+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+
Tristan B. Kildaire (deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net)
Info: `finger deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net` +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+

---
■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365

I like C's syntax. It's good and easier to type (physically with a

keyboard

- not talking about the type system).

But so messy :-D

--------------------------
about me ? : q.ennev.com/a

---
■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -

Deavmi wrote to Vk3jed <=-

I had to add

Uses Crt;

at the top, it needs the CRT unit to be able to write to the console

creen..

D

FPC includes that module by default.

I got an error until I referenced the unit, then it compiled and ran fine. :)


... No Virus Found. AARRGGHH!! I've got the No Virus!!
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.

Ennev wrote to Vk3jed <=-

I find it quite neat, for the most part.

Cleaner to read than a bunch of {} %#%$ () () ;

Indeed! :)

Maybe it look less compact, but a code is brisk and small no because
you typed it compactly.

Remember demonstrating that years ago at a job writing the same piece
of code in Turbo Pascal and in Microsoft C.

We had a decompiler so we could see what both code looked like and at
that level it was practically indistinguishable.

Interesting. :)

And when you use Delphi the difference in the size of a .exe was
dramatic.

Yeah, some compilers were shockers back then for including bloat into their .exe files.

So at the end of the day, it's funnier to support code in Pascal than C
or Java. You can of course type less compact source code in c or java
but it's up to the developer, when pascal forces you.

I always found Pascal very readable, while C varied.

while (number > 0)
{
factorial *= number;
--number;
}

or

while (nu > 0) {fa *= nu;--nu;}

I know which I find more readable! :)

it will both do the same thing, but one is so much nicer to read that
the other.

and once compiled that will end up being the same code executing in the same amount of time.

Yep, something that's easy to support and creates efficient binary code is a good thing. :)


... When two Englishmen meet their first talk is of the weather.
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On 2017-03-30 06:14 PM, Ennev wrote:

I find it quite neat, for the most part.

Cleaner to read than a bunch of {} %#%$ () () ;

Maybe it look less compact, but a code is brisk and small no because you typed
it compactly.

Remember demonstrating that years ago at a job writing the same piece of code in Turbo Pascal and in Microsoft C.

We had a decompiler so we could see what both code looked like and at that level it was practically indistinguishable.

And when you use Delphi the difference in the size of a .exe was dramatic.

Opening a windows with "hello world" with a button to close was like 15kb. where the same in c# was like 250kb because of all the stuff it was
bundling in it and that with turning the debug mode at off in both cases.

So at the end of the day, it's funnier to support code in Pascal than C or Java. You can of course type less compact source code in c or java but it's up
to the developer, when pascal forces you.

while (number > 0)
{
factorial *= number;
--number;
}

or

while (nu > 0) {fa *= nu;--nu;}

it will both do the same thing, but one is so much nicer to read that the other.

and once compiled that will end up being the same code executing in the
same amount of time.

---
� Synchronet � MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -

and once compiled that will end up being the same code executing in the
same amount of time.

Depends if the compiler is efficient. It could dd instructions that are redundant for fun. Lol.

---
■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365

On 2017-03-30 06:14 PM, Ennev wrote:

I find it quite neat, for the most part.

Cleaner to read than a bunch of {} %#%$ () () ;

Maybe it look less compact, but a code is brisk and small no because you typed
it compactly.

Remember demonstrating that years ago at a job writing the same piece of code in Turbo Pascal and in Microsoft C.

We had a decompiler so we could see what both code looked like and at that level it was practically indistinguishable.

And when you use Delphi the difference in the size of a .exe was dramatic.

Opening a windows with "hello world" with a button to close was like 15kb. where the same in c# was like 250kb because of all the stuff it was
bundling in it and that with turning the debug mode at off in both cases.

So at the end of the day, it's funnier to support code in Pascal than C or Java. You can of course type less compact source code in c or java but it's up
to the developer, when pascal forces you.

while (number > 0)
{
factorial *= number;
--number;
}

or

while (nu > 0) {fa *= nu;--nu;}

it will both do the same thing, but one is so much nicer to read that the other.

and once compiled that will end up being the same code executing in the
same amount of time.

---
� Synchronet � MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -

* dd = "add"

---
■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365

On 2017-03-30 09:12 PM, Ennev wrote:

I like C's syntax. It's good and easier to type (physically with a

keyboard

- not talking about the type system).

But so messy :-D

--------------------------
about me ? : q.ennev.com/a

---
� Synchronet � MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -

Guess so but when you need to quickly write some code and test it out it
beats things like Pascal. Also it ain't that messy - I like it quite a
lot. It isn't, let's say, as elegant as Pascal - I can tell you that.

---
■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365

On 2017-03-30 09:12 PM, Ennev wrote:

I like C's syntax. It's good and easier to type (physically with a

keyboard

- not talking about the type system).

But so messy :-D

--------------------------
about me ? : q.ennev.com/a

---
� Synchronet � MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -

Can we all agree though that Bash is a shit language.

---
■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365

Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
By: Deavmi to Ennev on Thu Mar 30 2017 10:28 pm

Can we all agree though that Bash is a shit language.

In what way? What little experience I had with it, it was no different that the strange syntax of Windows/DOS Batch scripting. I did find BASH to be more picky, though. I will agree it's a terrible language to script in, but I will add on the fact that it is the most picky.

-jag
Code it, script it, automate it!

---
■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365

Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
By: jagossel to Deavmi on Thu Mar 30 2017 06:07 pm

Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
By: Deavmi to Ennev on Thu Mar 30 2017 10:28 pm

Can we all agree though that Bash is a shit language.

In what way? What little experience I had with it, it was no different that the strange syntax of Windows/DOS Batch scripting. I did find BASH to be more picky, though. I will agree it's a terrible language to script in, but I will add on the fact that it is the most picky.

Sorry to interject here, jumping into the middle of a conversation..

I would never consider Bash a programming language any more than I would DOS.

Both are more of a 'user interface', and over time capabilities were added so someone didn't have to sit down and write a program to do something.

But.. as a scripting language, it is similar to a programming language in that is has specific syntax for specific commands. If you don't get the syntax correct, you're screwed no matter what language you're working in.

I find bash useful for scripting system commands and simple text or flat file processing. Expect is a bit nicer when you need to react different depending on a system or program response. Then again, I think that is about what these two were designed for...

okay then.. carry on..

--
Hemo

... I either want less corruption, or more chance to participate in it.

---
■ Synchronet ■ - Running madly into the wind and screaming - bbs.ujoint.org

Guess so but when you need to quickly write some code and test it out it beats things like Pascal. Also it ain't that messy - I like it quite a lot. It isn't, let's say, as elegant as Pascal - I can tell you that.

At the and it's just about what works for you :-)

So that why it's good to get a look at what's available to see what fits your for the project you have in mind.

All the roads lead to Rome.

---
■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -

On 2017-03-30 09:12 PM, Ennev wrote:

Can we all agree though that Bash is a shit language.

And yet, when i need to do something quick that i won't repeat much again i'll go there :-D

a script in bash using grep and sed on huge file can be so quick.

---
■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -

On 2017-03-30 10:33 PM, Vk3jed wrote:

Deavmi wrote to Vk3jed <=-

I had to add

Uses Crt;

at the top, it needs the CRT unit to be able to write to the console

creen..

D

FPC includes that module by default.

I got an error until I referenced the unit, then it compiled and ran fine. :)

.... No Virus Found. AARRGGHH!! I've got the No Virus!!
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
� Synchronet � Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.

What version of FPC are you using? Maybe your version doesn't implicitly include it.

---
■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365

On 2017-03-31 12:07 AM, jagossel wrote:

Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
By: Deavmi to Ennev on Thu Mar 30 2017 10:28 pm

Can we all agree though that Bash is a shit language.

In what way? What little experience I had with it, it was no different that the strange syntax of Windows/DOS Batch scripting. I did find BASH to be more
picky, though. I will agree it's a terrible language to script in, but I will
add on the fact that it is the most picky.

-jag
Code it, script it, automate it!

Also the parser gives the funniest error messages.

Error on line 70 when it's on 36.

---
■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365

On 2017-03-31 05:32 AM, Hemo wrote:

Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
By: jagossel to Deavmi on Thu Mar 30 2017 06:07 pm

Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
By: Deavmi to Ennev on Thu Mar 30 2017 10:28 pm

Can we all agree though that Bash is a shit language.

In what way? What little experience I had with it, it was no different that the strange syntax of Windows/DOS Batch scripting. I did find BASH to
be more picky, though. I will agree it's a terrible language to script in,
but I will add on the fact that it is the most picky.

Sorry to interject here, jumping into the middle of a conversation..

I would never consider Bash a programming language any more than I would DOS.

Both are more of a 'user interface', and over time capabilities were added so someone didn't have to sit down and write a program to do something.

But.. as a scripting language, it is similar to a programming language in that
is has specific syntax for specific commands. If you don't get the syntax correct, you're screwed no matter what language you're working in.

I find bash useful for scripting system commands and simple text or flat file processing. Expect is a bit nicer when you need to react different depending on a system or program response. Then again, I think that is about what these
two were designed for...

okay then.. carry on..

--
Hemo

.... I either want less corruption, or more chance to participate in it.

---
� Synchronet � - Running madly into the wind and screaming - bbs.ujoint.org

It's a languae nonetheless, just a scripting language.

---
■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365

On 2017-03-31 05:32 AM, Hemo wrote:

Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
By: jagossel to Deavmi on Thu Mar 30 2017 06:07 pm

Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
By: Deavmi to Ennev on Thu Mar 30 2017 10:28 pm

Can we all agree though that Bash is a shit language.

In what way? What little experience I had with it, it was no different that the strange syntax of Windows/DOS Batch scripting. I did find BASH to
be more picky, though. I will agree it's a terrible language to script in,
but I will add on the fact that it is the most picky.

Sorry to interject here, jumping into the middle of a conversation..

I would never consider Bash a programming language any more than I would DOS.

Both are more of a 'user interface', and over time capabilities were added so someone didn't have to sit down and write a program to do something.

But.. as a scripting language, it is similar to a programming language in that
is has specific syntax for specific commands. If you don't get the syntax correct, you're screwed no matter what language you're working in.

I find bash useful for scripting system commands and simple text or flat file processing. Expect is a bit nicer when you need to react different depending on a system or program response. Then again, I think that is about what these
two were designed for...

okay then.. carry on..

--
Hemo

.... I either want less corruption, or more chance to participate in it.

---
� Synchronet � - Running madly into the wind and screaming - bbs.ujoint.org

Python is technically seen as a scripting language too but atleast it's better. Idk though. i love Python (you can use it as a command-line,
just differently).

---
■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365

Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
By: Hemo to jagossel on Thu Mar 30 2017 22:32:01

I would never consider Bash a programming language any more than I would DOS

No argument from me on that point. I get it's not a programming language in the fact that there is no code to compile. I never said that it is a programming language.

But.. as a scripting language, it is similar to a programming language in th

at

is has specific syntax for specific commands. If you don't get the syntax correct, you're screwed no matter what language you're working in.

I totally get that. My point is that other languages (both scrpting and programmimg languages) have SOME room for minor differenes in whitespacing.

Again, I have VERY LITTLE experience with BASH and I get tripped up from time to time when I do use it and I have to look up some things in the manual.

Examples of where I stumbled a bit:
- Spaces inside the square brackets
- The special switches for if a directory or file exists or doesn't exist
- Accepting argumemts
- Defining functions first before calling it

-jag
Code it, Script it, Automate it!

---
■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -

At the and it's just about what works for you :-)

So that why it's good to get a look at what's available to see what fits your for the project you have in mind.

All the roads lead to Rome.

---
Γûá Synchronet Γûá MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -

Your last line. Does that just mean "all languages do the same thing" or can get the same job done (there are exceptions though ;), I'm sure).

+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+
Tristan B. Kildaire (deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net)
Info: `finger deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net` +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+

---
■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365

True. I feel the same way.

+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+
Tristan B. Kildaire (deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net)
Info: `finger deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net` +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+

---
■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365

Test message (sorry for doing this here)

+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+
Tristan B. Kildaire (deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net)
Info: `finger deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net` +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+

---
■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365

Another one.

+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+
Tristan B. Kildaire (deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net)
Info: `finger deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net` +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+

---
■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365

Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
By: Deavmi to jagossel on Fri Mar 31 2017 15:14:51

Also the parser gives the funniest error messages.

Error on line 70 when it's on 36.

Same thing with SQL Server and SQL Scrpits or stored procedures.

Error on line 73...

"How exactly does a blank line cause an error? This isn't BrainF***!"

I susoect it has a lot of how the scripts gets parsed in regards to line numbers; not really sure how to get to the right line with the given line number.

-jag
Code it, Script it, Automate it!

---
■ Synchronet ■ MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -

Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
By: Deavmi to jagossel on Fri Mar 31 2017 15:14:51

Same thing with SQL Server and SQL Scrpits or stored procedures.

Error on line 73...

"How exactly does a blank line cause an error? This isn't BrainF***!"

I susoect it has a lot of how the scripts gets parsed in regards to line numbers; not really sure how to get to the right line with the given line number.

-jag
Code it, Script it, Automate it!

---
Γûá Synchronet Γûá MtlGeek - Geeks in Montreal - http://mtlgeek.com/ -

Yeah. It's to do with the parsing. I can sympathize with Brian Fox for that; I can dee myself running into the same sort of thing when I start writing my own parsers.

+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+
Tristan B. Kildaire (deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net)
Info: `finger deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net` +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+

---
■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365

Deavmi wrote to Vk3jed <=-

What version of FPC are you using? Maybe your version doesn't
implicitly include it.

3.0.0, if I recall.


... Manufacturing contact lenses is harder than meets the eye.
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.

Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
By: Vk3jed to Deavmi on Sat Apr 01 2017 05:13 am

Deavmi wrote to Vk3jed <=-

What version of FPC are you using? Maybe your version doesn't implicitly include it.

3.0.0, if I recall.

... Manufacturing contact lenses is harder than meets the eye.

Isn;'t that quite new?

+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+
Tristan B. Kildaire (deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net)
Info: `finger deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net` +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+

---
■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365

Deavmi wrote to Hemo <=-

Python is technically seen as a scripting language too but atleast it's better. Idk though. i love Python (you can use it as a command-line,
just differently).

Perl falls to mind as well. now there's one that is confusing. About 15 different ways and back to do just about anything, ranging from complete gibberish to human readable. And it all works.

... I'm not anti-social; I'm just not user friendly.
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
■ Synchronet ■ - Running madly into the wind and screaming - bbs.ujoint.org

Jagossel wrote to Hemo <=-

Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
By: Hemo to jagossel on Thu Mar 30 2017 22:32:01

I would never consider Bash a programming language any more than I would DOS

No argument from me on that point. I get it's not a programming
language in the fact that there is no code to compile. I never said
that it is a programming language.

But.. as a scripting language, it is similar to a programming language in th

at

is has specific syntax for specific commands. If you don't get the syntax correct, you're screwed no matter what language you're working in.

I totally get that. My point is that other languages (both scrpting and programmimg languages) have SOME room for minor differenes in whitespacing.

Again, I have VERY LITTLE experience with BASH and I get tripped up
from time to time when I do use it and I have to look up some things in the manual.

Examples of where I stumbled a bit:
- Spaces inside the square brackets
- The special switches for if a directory or file exists or doesn't
exist
- Accepting argumemts
- Defining functions first before calling it

no arguments from me on any of that. I find the more languages one tries to learn, the more confusing it can be as things do vary between them. Sometimes quite a bit. Sometimes little things, like the result when comparing strings. C returns 0 when they match, which still trips me up, becuase most other languages I may use return 1 or true when strings match.

... Weeds! No, that is my vineyard! Ever heard of dandelion wine?
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
■ Synchronet ■ - Running madly into the wind and screaming - bbs.ujoint.org

On 2017-04-01 05:48 AM, Hemo wrote:

Deavmi wrote to Hemo <=-

Python is technically seen as a scripting language too but atleast it's better. Idk though. i love Python (you can use it as a command-line, just differently).

Perl falls to mind as well. now there's one that is confusing. About 15 different ways and back to do just about anything, ranging from complete gibberish to human readable. And it all works.

... I'm not anti-social; I'm just not user friendly.
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
� Synchronet � - Running madly into the wind and screaming - bbs.ujoint.org

Perl to me is not a nice language. Ugly as hell.

---
■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365

On 2017-04-01 05:52 AM, Hemo wrote:

Jagossel wrote to Hemo <=-

Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
By: Hemo to jagossel on Thu Mar 30 2017 22:32:01

I would never consider Bash a programming language any more than I would DOS

No argument from me on that point. I get it's not a programming
language in the fact that there is no code to compile. I never said
that it is a programming language.

But.. as a scripting language, it is similar to a programming language in th

at

is has specific syntax for specific commands. If you don't get the syntax correct, you're screwed no matter what language you're working in.

I totally get that. My point is that other languages (both scrpting and programmimg languages) have SOME room for minor differenes in whitespacing.

Again, I have VERY LITTLE experience with BASH and I get tripped up
from time to time when I do use it and I have to look up some things in the manual.

Examples of where I stumbled a bit:
- Spaces inside the square brackets
- The special switches for if a directory or file exists or doesn't exist
- Accepting argumemts
- Defining functions first before calling it

no arguments from me on any of that. I find the more languages one tries to learn, the more confusing it can be as things do vary between them. Sometimes quite a bit. Sometimes little things, like the result when comparing strings.
C returns 0 when they match, which still trips me up, becuase most other languages I may use return 1 or true when strings match.

... Weeds! No, that is my vineyard! Ever heard of dandelion wine?
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
� Synchronet � - Running madly into the wind and screaming - bbs.ujoint.org

0 makes sense. It usually is always like that. It is a neutral number.

---
■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365

Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
By: Deavmi to Ennev on Fri Mar 31 2017 10:54 am

All the roads lead to Rome.

Your last line. Does that just mean "all languages do the same thing" or can get the same job done (there are exceptions though ;), I'm sure).

All roads might lead to rome, but you have to fork off and take other roads to get there, no single road will take you to rome, just as no single programming language would do 'everything' you would need it to do "I presume". So its nice to have options. I find bash scriting to be very helpul, just as anything else I can grasp on to, like Qbasic for example :)

--

Tim Smith (KK4QBN)
KK4QBN BBS

---
■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365

Deavmi wrote to Hemo <=-

On 2017-04-01 05:48 AM, Hemo wrote:

Deavmi wrote to Hemo <=-

Python is technically seen as a scripting language too but atleast it's better. Idk though. i love Python (you can use it as a command-line, just differently).

Perl falls to mind as well. now there's one that is confusing. About 15 different ways and back to do just about anything, ranging from complete gibberish to human readable. And it all works.

... I'm not anti-social; I'm just not user friendly.
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
� Synchronet � - Running madly into the wind and screaming

-

bbs.ujoint.org

Perl to me is not a nice language. Ugly as hell.

Lol - yes, I can see that, though it is a language I do a lot of work in and I try very hard to write in such a way that others can understand, and I comment things heavily. I use Perl for text file manipulations mostly, I think it excels in this area. I have started doing some of my daily taks in bash scripts when I can, because others in our support team understand bash more than Perl.

I dabbled in Pascal back in the 1990's, even wrote a few mods for Synchronet back then that never really took off, but you can still find at least one of them in BBS archives. It was my first attempt, and much like the work I do today, it was manipulating a text file to change data. I didn't continue using Pascal, and forgot most things.

In 1981 I wrote a huge multiple choice quiz system in Integer Basic on the Apple ][ series. It was basically a flat file database with a front end and an editor. I aced that class, and it was a fun project. I recall the teacher used the program for a few quizes in the following years. (I gave permission)

I started a class on Python and dropped it because I couldn't get over some things. I can't recall what those things were, I should go take another look at it.

cheers,
Hemo
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
■ Synchronet ■ - Running madly into the wind and screaming - bbs.ujoint.org

Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
By: Hemo to Deavmi on Sat Apr 01 2017 01:07 pm

Deavmi wrote to Hemo <=-

On 2017-04-01 05:48 AM, Hemo wrote:

Deavmi wrote to Hemo <=-

Python is technically seen as a scripting language too but atleast i

t's

better. Idk though. i love Python (you can use it as a command-line, just differently).

Perl falls to mind as well. now there's one that is confusing. About 15 different ways and back to do just about anything, ranging from complete gibberish to human readable. And it all works.

... I'm not anti-social; I'm just not user friendly.
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
� Synchronet � - Running madly into the wind and scream

ing

-

bbs.ujoint.org

Perl to me is not a nice language. Ugly as hell.

Lol - yes, I can see that, though it is a language I do a lot of work in and

I

try very hard to write in such a way that others can understand, and I comme

nt

things heavily. I use Perl for text file manipulations mostly, I think it excels in this area. I have started doing some of my daily taks in bash scripts when I can, because others in our support team understand bash more than Perl.

I dabbled in Pascal back in the 1990's, even wrote a few mods for Synchronet back then that never really took off, but you can still find at least one of them in BBS archives. It was my first attempt, and much like the work I do today, it was manipulating a text file to change data. I didn't continue us

ing

Pascal, and forgot most things.

In 1981 I wrote a huge multiple choice quiz system in Integer Basic on the Apple ][ series. It was basically a flat file database with a front end and

an

editor. I aced that class, and it was a fun project. I recall the teacher used the program for a few quizes in the following years. (I gave permissio

n)

I started a class on Python and dropped it because I couldn't get over some things. I can't recall what those things were, I should go take another loo

k

at it.

cheers,
Hemo

Thanks for the info. Maybe take a look at Python and you can figure those things out. Maybe it's the heavy use of OOP?

+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+
Tristan B. Kildaire (deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net)
Info: `finger deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net` +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+

---
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Deavmi wrote to Vk3jed <=-

3.0.0, if I recall.

Isn;'t that quite new?

Yep, current version is 3.0.2.


... If you feel strongly about graffiti, sign a partition.
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■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.

Jagossel wrote to Deavmi <=-

Same thing with SQL Server and SQL Scrpits or stored procedures.

Error on line 73...

"How exactly does a blank line cause an error? This isn't BrainF***!"

I susoect it has a lot of how the scripts gets parsed in regards to
line numbers; not really sure how to get to the right line with the
given line number.

I would say it's because the parser has to be sure there is an error and that it doesn't prematurely flag an error inside a long block (like a function or loop), so quite often, the offending error is well before where the compiler or interpreter flags it. For example, nest a few if-then-else statements in a bash shell script and leave out an inner "fi", and depending on the code, the error can be indicated a fair way down the script. Similar things happen when quotes aren't closed, sometimes these will go all the way to the end of the file with "unexpected end of file".


... I can see clearly now, my brain is gone...
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Hemo wrote to Deavmi <=-

Perl falls to mind as well. now there's one that is confusing. About
15 different ways and back to do just about anything, ranging from complete gibberish to human readable. And it all works.

I've dabbled in Perl, took a bit of study, but looked like quite a useful language. I mostly script in BASH though, because at one stage, the code I was fiddling with most was almost all BASH scripts, and it's always available on Linux boxes. :) Haven't ventured into Python yet, but I know a lot swear by
t.


... When eating an elephant, take one bite at a time.
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■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.

Hemo wrote to Jagossel <=-

Examples of where I stumbled a bit:
- Spaces inside the square brackets
- The special switches for if a directory or file exists or doesn't
exist
- Accepting argumemts
- Defining functions first before calling it

Yep, I think I've tripped up on most of these too at one stage, but you do learn the rules, eventually. :) As for those switches, I just pull up a copy of one of the many excellent references available online, when I need help with specifics of syntax. Beats my memory, which tends to favour concepts over detail.

no arguments from me on any of that. I find the more languages one
tries to learn, the more confusing it can be as things do vary between them. Sometimes quite a bit. Sometimes little things, like the result when comparing strings. C returns 0 when they match, which still trips
me up, becuase most other languages I may use return 1 or true when strings match.

Same with anything where there's a lot of alternatives to learn. There's potential for confusion. :)


... It is better to know some of the questions than all of the answers.
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■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.

Deavmi wrote to Hemo <=-

no arguments from me on any of that. I find the more languages one tries to learn, the more confusing it can be as things do vary between them.

ometimes

quite a bit. Sometimes little things, like the result when comparing

strings.

C returns 0 when they match, which still trips me up, becuase most other languages I may use return 1 or true when strings match.

0 makes sense. It usually is always like that. It is a neutral number.

It depends how you define your logic, and there's no right or wrong way for language designers to define it, as long as the programmers using that language get it right in their code! :)


... !enilgat cinataS !eraweB µ
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■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.

KK4QBN wrote to Deavmi <=-

All roads might lead to rome, but you have to fork off and take other roads to get there, no single road will take you to rome, just as no single programming language would do 'everything' you would need it to
do "I presume". So its nice to have options. I find bash scriting to be very helpul, just as anything else I can grasp on to, like Qbasic for example :)

Horses for courses. Scripting languages are very useful. On Linux in particular, scripts can often be the glue that joines other software together, and language like Python and Perl can do a lot of jobs normally associated with compiled languages on modern machines, but there's still a place for compiled code too.

I've started my relearning of Pascal, and it's coming back to me very quickly. Hopefully by the end of winter (i.e. around September for those north of the equator ;) ), I'll be able to write some decent code again in Pascal and get some of those projects I've had on hold moving (and perhaps open source a couple :) ).


... The colder the X-ray table, the more of your body is required on it.
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.

Hemo wrote to Deavmi <=-

Perl to me is not a nice language. Ugly as hell.

Lol - yes, I can see that, though it is a language I do a lot of work
in and I try very hard to write in such a way that others can
understand, and I comment things heavily. I use Perl for text file manipulations mostly, I think it excels in this area. I have started doing some of my daily taks in bash scripts when I can, because others
in our support team understand bash more than Perl.

That was my impression too, though I've really done very little Perl. I'm more a BASH guy when it comes to scripting.

I dabbled in Pascal back in the 1990's, even wrote a few mods for Synchronet back then that never really took off, but you can still find
at least one of them in BBS archives. It was my first attempt, and
much like the work I do today, it was manipulating a text file to
change data. I didn't continue using Pascal, and forgot most things.

I started with TP 3 on CP/M (on a Z80 Softcard in an Apple // no less!) in 1984 at school then progressed to TP on the PC in the mid 1980s and into the early 1990s. I wrote a bit of code, including my own Morse Code tutor, which was the only way I could obtain one, because there was no Internet in 1989, and I didn't have a modem anyway, and lived out in the sticks. A few years later, with the help of a friend for the Z80 assembler, I ported that code to TP 3 on CP/M, with the assembler timing routines for sound generation and Morse timing (coded as drop in functions and procedures for their DOS equivalents). That was released to the public domain on some local BBSs, but I haven't seen a copy in recent years.

In 1981 I wrote a huge multiple choice quiz system in Integer Basic on
the Apple ][ series. It was basically a flat file database with a
front end and an editor. I aced that class, and it was a fun project.
I recall the teacher used the program for a few quizes in the following years. (I gave permission)

Cool. I never did much with integer basic, I was more an Applesoft guy back then, and once playing with CP/M, it was MBASIC on that platform, though I much preferred Pascal.

I started a class on Python and dropped it because I couldn't get over some things. I can't recall what those things were, I should go take another look at it.

I should look at Python sometime, but I have a ridiculous number of things on the go these days, relearning Padcal is a lesser learning curve, because a lot of it will simply come back to me with use.


... Chuck Norris can divide by zero.
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■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.

Deavmi wrote to Hemo <=-

Thanks for the info. Maybe take a look at Python and you can figure
those things out. Maybe it's the heavy use of OOP?

That's one concept that I took to fairly naturally. I encountered OOP with Java and had no problem understanding it.


... Spam will keep in it's can until the end of time.
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.49
■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS in Bendigo, Australia.

Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
By: Hemo to Jagossel on Fri Mar 31 2017 10:52 pm

Jagossel wrote to Hemo <=-

Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
By: Hemo to jagossel on Thu Mar 30 2017 22:32:01

I would never consider Bash a programming language any more than I would DOS

No argument from me on that point. I get it's not a programming language in the fact that there is no code to compile. I never said that it is a programming language.

But.. as a scripting language, it is similar to a programming language in th

at

is has specific syntax for specific commands. If you don't get the syntax correct, you're screwed no matter what language you're working in.

I totally get that. My point is that other languages (both scrpting and programmimg languages) have SOME room for minor differenes in whitespacing.

Again, I have VERY LITTLE experience with BASH and I get tripped up from time to time when I do use it and I have to look up some things in the manual.

Examples of where I stumbled a bit:
- Spaces inside the square brackets
- The special switches for if a directory or file exists or doesn't exist
- Accepting argumemts
- Defining functions first before calling it

no arguments from me on any of that. I find the more languages one tries to learn, the more confusing it can be as things do vary between them. Sometimes quite a bit. Sometimes little things, like the result when comparing strings. C returns 0 when they match, which still trips me up, becuase most other languages I may use return 1 or true when strings match.

But you're referring to strcmp(), which is just one string comparison function. You could write your own that returned a boolean value very easily:
bool strings_match(const char* str1, const char* str2) {
return strcmp(str1, str2) == 0;
}

... or actuall compare each character in the string and return whatever you like.

But the whole reason that strcmp() returns an integer (and not a boolean) is because it tells the caller (you) which string is "greater" (for sorting purposes), which can be very handy indeed (e.g. if < 0, then str1 is less than str2). So it does more than just tell if you 2 strings match, it tells you how the 2 strings compare with eachother.

digital man

Synchronet "Real Fact" #83:
Donations to the Synchronet project are welcome @ http://wiki.synchro.net/donate
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---
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Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
By: KK4QBN to Deavmi on Sat Apr 01 2017 10:48 am

Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
By: Deavmi to Ennev on Fri Mar 31 2017 10:54 am

All the roads lead to Rome.

Your last line. Does that just mean "all languages do the same thing" o

r

can get the same job done (there are exceptions though ;), I'm sure).

All roads might lead to rome, but you have to fork off and take other roads

to

get there, no single road will take you to rome, just as no single programmi

ng

language would do 'everything' you would need it to do "I presume". So its n

ice

to have options. I find bash scriting to be very helpul, just as anything el

se

I can grasp on to, like Qbasic for example :)

--

Tim Smith (KK4QBN)
KK4QBN BBS

I like Qbasic too. I dont know why. maybe I have a goto mind.
Irv Handel

---
■ Synchronet ■ Vertrauen ■ Home of Synchronet ■ telnet://vert.synchro.net

Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
By: KK4QBN to Deavmi on Sat Apr 01 2017 10:48 am

r
to
ng
ice
se

I like Qbasic too. I dont know why. maybe I have a goto mind.
Irv Handel
---
Γûá Synchronet Γûá Vertrauen Γûá Home of Synchronet Γûá telnet://vert.synchro.net

The day I discovered goto in C I was like whaaaaaaat?

+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+
Tristan B. Kildaire (deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net)
Info: `finger deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net` +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+

---
■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365

Re: Re: Opinion on Pascal
By: Deavmi to Eyearrvee on Thu Apr 13 2017 11:46 am

The day I discovered goto in C I was like whaaaaaaat?

It's in C# as well; although, rarely used. Never understood the "goto" in C# or any other OO language.

Granted I was pretty guilty of using GOTO when I programmed for fun on the TRS-80 CoCo as a kid.

-jag
Code it, script it, automate it!

---
■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365

Any language with sub routines at the least.

+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+
Tristan B. Kildaire (deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net)
Info: `finger deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net` +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+

---
■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365

On 13/04/2017 23:47, Deavmi wrote:

Any language with sub routines at the least.

+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+
Tristan B. Kildaire (deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net)
Info: `finger deavmi@kk4qbn.synchro.net` +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+

Makes the support for a goto weird.

---
■ Synchronet ■ KK4QBN + (706)-422-9538 + kk4qbn.synchro.net + 24/7/365