• The stay home and not wor

    From Moejj@VERT/AMIGAC to Boraxman on Tue Mar 22 12:34:46 2022
    Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: Boraxman to MRO on Thu Jan 20 2022 22:53:29


    If anyone wants to earn more than minimum wage, needs to learn a trade to support pay better than minimum wage. That isn't the responsibility of anyone but the individual.

    I used to earn minimum wage. I didn't like it. Did I whine, cry, demand more money for jobs anyone without skill or education could do? No. Of course not. I went to a trade school. I haven't earned minimum wage since.

    Went back to school, got my Master's degree. Now I make six figures.

    My wage, my responsibility.

    Nobody working at McDonald's or retail deserves $15/h. Minimum wage was never designed to be a living wage. It is what it's called - minimum.

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Moejj on Tue Mar 22 13:26:04 2022
    Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: Moejj to Boraxman on Tue Mar 22 2022 12:34 pm

    Nobody working at McDonald's or retail deserves $15/h. Minimum wage was never designed to be a living wage. It is what it's called - minimum.

    In order to say something is "minimum" though, I'd think you'd have to define what it's minimum for? One thing I've wondered is whether minimum wage was supposed to be a minimum for being able to support oneself and pay their bills etc., which would imply that yes, it was meant as a minimum living wage.

    I just did a search, and this page says a minimum wage "should provide enough income to afford a living wage":
    https://bit.ly/3ul0Uv3
    Full link: https://www.thebalance.com/us-minimum-wage-what-it-is-history-and-who-must-comp ly-3306209

    Other than a living wage, for what purpose is a minimum wage meant to be minimum for?

    Nightfox

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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Nightfox on Tue Mar 22 20:17:27 2022
    Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: Nightfox to Moejj on Tue Mar 22 2022 01:26 pm

    Other than a living wage, for what purpose is a minimum wage meant to be minimum fo

    Nightfox

    Minimum wages are meant for getting voters for the Spanish Worker's Socialist Party.
    That is the reason why Spanish minimum wage is the same all across the territory
    regardless of the fact it is more than you need in a poor area, and won't afford you a
    living at all in a rich one.

    In Spain, wages per sector hit their lowest at points agreed by both the Unions and
    Employer Asociations. This is the reason why an industrial worker or a secretary will
    have the minimum wage he may earn dictated by non-government forces. It is a bit
    better than the alternative but it has the issue that the collective of Unions deciding how much people makes represent less than 20% of the workforce (and are often
    quite content to trash workers from certain sectors if it fits them).


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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Arelor on Wed Mar 23 08:04:46 2022
    Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: Arelor to Nightfox on Tue Mar 22 2022 08:17 pm

    Minimum wages are meant for getting voters for the Spanish Worker's Socialist Party. That is the reason why Spanish minimum wage is the same all across the territory regardless of the fact it is more than you need in a poor area, and won't afford you a living at all in a rich one.


    i still don't get the argument about minimum wage.
    Is this very common in other countries?

    in the usa it's just a political selling point.

    not many people are ON minimum wage. not even people at walmart.
    i know people that mop floors that make 20/hr.
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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to MRO on Wed Mar 23 10:06:23 2022
    Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: MRO to Arelor on Wed Mar 23 2022 08:04 am

    Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: Arelor to Nightfox on Tue Mar 22 2022 08:17 pm

    Minimum wages are meant for getting voters for the Spanish Worker's Socialist Party. That is the reason why Spanish minimum wage is the same all across the territory regardless of the fac
    it is more than you need in a poor area, and won't afford you a living at all in a rich one.


    i still don't get the argument about minimum wage.
    Is this very common in other countries?

    in the usa it's just a political selling point.

    not many people are ON minimum wage. not even people at walmart.
    i know people that mop floors that make 20/hr.

    Minimum wage seems common in countries with capital based socialism. I agree it tends to be a selling point more than a regulation that kicks into action frequently.

    My hipothesis is that the reason why minimum wage jobs are not very common is because they force employers to pay more than they are willing for certain tasks. If you think tax X is worth 2
    bucks, you are not going to pay 3 just because some Minister has told you it is worth 3.

    The theory behind minimum wages is that if you are paying 2 bucks for the task, a min cost of 3 will turn most tasks worth 2 bucks into 3 bucks tasks. The problem is a lot of employers would
    rather restructure the firm and get rid of the employee (or cease performing the task at all) rather than get the job done for more money that they think it is worth. In practice this means
    that instead of finding people being paid 3 bucks for doing something worth 2, you find an engineer getting 9999999 for doing four million tasks with a robot. And an unemployment queue five
    miles long.

    Seriously, a friend of mine did automation plans in asia, and a chief reason why they could not roll lots of automation plans in China was because chinesse workers were cheaper and more
    reliable than machines.

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  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to MRO on Thu Mar 24 20:54:00 2022
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    Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: Arelor to Nightfox on Tue Mar 22 2022 08:17 pm

    Minimum wages are meant for getting voters for the Spanish Worker's Socialist Party. That is the reason why Spanish minimum wage is the same all across the territory regardless of the fact it is more than you need in a poor area, and won't afford you a living at all in a rich one.


    i still don't get the argument about minimum wage.
    Is this very common in other countries?

    in the usa it's just a political selling point.

    not many people are ON minimum wage. not even people at walmart.
    i know people that mop floors that make 20/hr.

    Minimum wage is made into an issue by some Right Wing "Conservative" types, but it really isn't the issue here in Australia people think it is, and our minimum wage is higher than the US.

    Consider this. The person serving you your food, or working the retail store gets paid more per hour, but we don't tip. Well, we sometimes do, but its an exception, not an expectation. The tip you pay in the US is a 'minimum wage tax', a necessary addition to make up for the fact they are paid poorly.

    We just give them a higher wage, so we don't have to worry about a surcharge whenever we buy anything where minimum wage workers are involved.

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Boraxman on Thu Mar 24 09:54:30 2022
    Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: Boraxman to MRO on Thu Mar 24 2022 08:54 pm

    Consider this. The person serving you your food, or working the retail store gets paid more per hour, but we don't tip. Well, we sometimes do, but its an exception, not an expectation. The tip you pay in the US is a 'minimum wage tax', a necessary addition to make up for the fact they are paid poorly.

    We just give them a higher wage, so we don't have to worry about a surcharge whenever we buy anything where minimum wage workers are involved.


    well i like to reward good service. there's times when i was ignored so they got nothing. tips arent mandatory. one thing i dont like is they are adding tipping to all kinds of food restaurants. if i go there to pick up food, i'm not tipping. there's no table service.

    a tip isnt a surcharge in the usa.
    well, at most places. some restaurants state that they will do a % of gratuity on the bill. that's kinda rare.
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  • From Boraxman@VERT/MSRDBBS to MRO on Fri Mar 25 20:23:00 2022
    MRO wrote to Boraxman <=-

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    Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: Boraxman to MRO on Thu Mar 24 2022 08:54 pm

    Consider this. The person serving you your food, or working the retail store gets paid more per hour, but we don't tip. Well, we sometimes do, but its an exception, not an expectation. The tip you pay in the US is a 'minimum wage tax', a necessary addition to make up for the fact they are paid poorly.

    We just give them a higher wage, so we don't have to worry about a surcharge whenever we buy anything where minimum wage workers are involved.


    well i like to reward good service. there's times when i was ignored so they got nothing. tips arent mandatory. one thing i dont like is they are adding tipping to all kinds of food restaurants. if i go there to
    pick up food, i'm not tipping. there's no table service.

    a tip isnt a surcharge in the usa.
    well, at most places. some restaurants state that they will do a % of gratuity on the bill. that's kinda rare. ---

    I haven't been, but my wife was there for a year, and she says tipping, if not mandatory, is expected. The workers are reliant on tips. Sometimes it is on the bill. I saw this in Europe as well. In Australia, we generally don't, unless there is an exception (or your rich). I do tip taxi drivers, but for a meal, a coffee, no, very rarely.

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  • From Dr. What@VERT/CFBBS to MRO on Fri Mar 25 08:34:00 2022
    MRO wrote to Boraxman <=-

    well, at most places. some restaurants state that they will do a % of gratuity on the bill. that's kinda rare. ---

    That's usually for something out of the ordinary - like a very large group, or a birthday party - where the server will be doing more work than normal and the place wants to make sure that the server is compensated for the extra work.


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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dr. What on Fri Mar 25 15:18:24 2022
    Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: Dr. What to MRO on Fri Mar 25 2022 08:34 am

    MRO wrote to Boraxman <=-

    well, at most places. some restaurants state that they will do a % of gratuity on the bill. that's kinda rare. ---

    That's usually for something out of the ordinary - like a very large group, or a birthday party - where the server will be doing more work than normal and the place wants to make sure that the server is compensated for the extra work.

    in the uk or the united states?

    i dont go out to eat a lot, especially after the pandemic but i know of a couple of places where it's the standard. they also have places for x amount of people have it kick in.
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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANT to Dr. What on Fri Mar 25 19:50:40 2022
    Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: Dr. What to MRO on Fri Mar 25 2022 08:34 am

    MRO wrote to Boraxman <=-

    well, at most places. some restaurants state that they will do a % of gratuity on the bill. that's kinda rare. ---

    That's usually for something out of the ordinary - like a very large group, a birthday party - where the server will be doing more work than normal and place wants to make sure that the server is compensated for the extra work.



    Here they may add a % for the extra services, but not call it "tip", in case of special events and the like.

    We don't tip much in Spain. Tips are reserved for outstanding work only. Waiters here are better paid than in places with tip culture because tips don't enter the equation at all.

    Which makes getting a tip at all at any service so much more special.

    When I see a "tip" included in a bill, it looks very artificial to me. It makes me not want to consume in bars abroad.

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Arelor on Fri Mar 25 18:47:48 2022
    Re: The stay home and not wor
    By: Arelor to Dr. What on Fri Mar 25 2022 07:50 pm

    When I see a "tip" included in a bill, it looks very artificial to me. It makes me not want to consume in bars abroad.

    I feel like if they really need that additional money to stay in business, they might as well just charge more for their food & beverages up front. Then it wouldn't really seem like bait-and-switch pricing where you need to add a bit more in later.

    Nightfox

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  • From Dr. What@VERT/CFBBS to MRO on Sat Mar 26 18:31:00 2022
    MRO wrote to Dr. What <=-

    in the uk or the united states?

    United States.

    i dont go out to eat a lot, especially after the pandemic but i know of
    a couple of places where it's the standard. they also have places for x amount of people have it kick in.

    I've seen a wider range of tipping recently.

    Usually, though, it's a at-customer's-discretion tip of x% of the bill (but if the service is really bad, no tip or a tiny tip - like 2 cents).

    Some other places have started to "push" the tip jar a little more heavily. I saw this before the scamdemic, where some places (like little coffee shops) made a little contest with 2 jars and the customer "votes" for one of the options by putting money into the option he likes best.

    But I've seen the tip jar next to the cash register far more often in the last year.

    But the only time that I've seen a tip "mandated" was in restaurants when we had an abnormally large group.


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